Forrest Chang at rec.martial-arts on 27 April 1993 wrote --

Charles (an earlier contributor) wrote -

I imagine that the TKD instructors who got their start in the 50s, or the people who teach ROK troops now - and let us not forget that there has been nearly constant combat along the DMZ since the truce - have a very different conception of TKD than the people who view it as sport. Perhaps Curt Williams, among others, could dicuss this more knowledgeably than I. But I'd bet the ROK army TKD champion could stay in the ring with a Muay Thai fighter, under any rules.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Forrest replies -

I beg to differ on a few points. First some things, I'm not saying.

I'm NOT saying TKD is not a fighting art.
I'm NOT saying TKD is all wimpy
I'm NOT saying TKD is exclusively a sport.

A few things I can say.

1) There has been no peace treaty signed, but basically a long standing ceasefire between N. and S. Korea. I may not have the exact terminology.
2) We (UN( bulk U.S.) and S. Korean forces) have our "guns" pointed and loaded at them and vice versa. Before the U.S. gave up the "Z" mission (very recently, my unit stood down less than a year ago), we ran live patrols with live ammo.

So as far as the "war feeling" in Korea, charles has got something.

Now TKD in korea. Well I came back from S. Korea in June 91. Maybe things have changed. TKD is the national sport (in addition to the nat'l art). Anyways they're really competive, they have the Yudo college, where you get a degree in martial arts, they have tkd high school and junior high schools. Consequently, it's good to be in tkd. There's a bit of corruption over there as far as the mandatory military conscription. Rick kids get to be KATUSA's( korean augmentee to the U.S. army ), less rich kids get to be R.O.K soldiers, and most spend their time doing hard labor and landscaping S. Korea.

Anyways, if you're really good in TKD, you can get recruited. The best become part of the national team, the next best goto the military teams. Military team members, typically just train tkd, so the branch can reap it's tkd honors...

Ok. So now I've established that in the competive tkd (WTF/KTA that is) world of korea, the korean military champions train exclusively tkd (not unlike the nat'l champs). Well what are they training for? Competition, WTF, 3 min, 3 rounds, knock 'em out you win.

Now, this is not to say that there aren't combat effective korean martial arts being used. I had to work with some S. Korean Special Forces sorts during team Spirit (Our unit didn't usually, it's long story) they seemed like quite ornery fellas (except the captain, he was laid back ). They probably aren't practicing for any competitions.

So, along the portion of the DMZ (or "Z" as we called it) known as the Western Corridor, the UN used to (I'm not sure what it looks like now), watch over an area called the Joint Security Area (JSA), which consisted of "UN" forces (read u.s. and S.korea mainly). Yearly, the U.S. forces there have an 8th Army Championchips, which the guys from the JSA typically sweep. Well in area I (the one i was in near the "Z" ) includes the JSA under it. Well, the JSA team is always made up of ROK soldiers (they obviously beat out the GI's on the JSA). Like the rest of the military tkd guys, that's all they do.

So I got to fight the middleweight JSA guy. You know what? He wasn't all that good. Yeah, he was better than me and he won. He went on to 8th army and won (no surprise), I went on to 8th army and made a good friend... He fought s. korean style wtf. Those who have seen (or participated) in an international competitions will be able to recognize the difference -- they have a certain style, which changes as they "refine" it. So, I really pissed him off with an close up in fighting style (very atypical for wtf -- but hey, he was a better kicker than I and had close to zero infighting skill-- too bad you NEVER can score a point with a punch in S. Korea, despite what the rules say). I was able to neutralize him most of the time thereby minimizing damage to myself.

So then, my point? Well in this particular case, I don't think this military korean champ could hold his own against a thai boxer under "any rules". Sure the all ROK champ would be better than him, but he's _trained to fight the wtf game_. Likewise, I knew how to neutralize him -- couldn't beat him, but I was a lot healthier than most of his opponents in both Area I and 8th Army.

So, if I could practice all day like the JSA guy, and he wasn't having that hot of a day, I think I could've beat him. However, I wouldn't want to take on a thai boxer, esp. without training like one first. I'm still not too keen on elbows to my face, knees, and shin attacks up and down my legs.